Why McCall should run STU in a 4th gen

[Fair!]

Here's the parts list....

Ground Control Coil-Overs - $420 - no performance advantage to coil-overs. Wasted coin.
Strano Sway Bars - $400 See above. Just use 1LE sh!t.
BMR rear control arms - $150 Wasted money.
BMR panhard rod - $100 Wasted money
LG Torque Arm - $300 Possibly wasted money. I'd make my own paper before paying LG for a roll of toilet paper.
Stainless brakelines - $100 yawn...
Hawk front brake pads - $150 sheesh!
Longtube headers with cats/y-pipe - $1200 Too much.
Air Lid with K&N - $150 Go home built on this? I'd try to do a cold air routed to a cone filter.
2-point STB - $100 yawn
Harnesses (2) - $200 yawn. RJS = $60 each.

A lot of this list is fluff. Seriously, it won't make the car faster. You sure like to negatively pad your budgets with silly sh!t! and almos EVERY single part you would need or want could be had for 1/2 or less than new retail - you have LOTS of used sources.

[size=3]EDIT - Now a crazy question....why couldn't I just convert my current 'bird over to STU? Besides the engine and a few suspension changes, my car is already there.

OMFG... Too much "de-mod" work needed. Current parts illegal for STU: Hood, suspension (solid bushings), exhaust (cats), interior (back seats), brake ducts?, gears, and LOTS of little stuff.

You'd also be down 50 hp to an LS1, assuming you bought a complete LT1 to swap back into your car ($$ and wasted work!). WAY too much work and parts lost.... no way.

If you are serious about this, sell your Firebird (which you were gonna do regardless) and start with the right car. 1998-200 Z28 SS clone or **Firehawk** clone (assuming they made a Firehawk in 1998; think "stock" legal clone, then mod form there). And yes, a lot of these cars have some of these parts already installed...

[hancheyb]

hood isnt stock. lt1 vs ls1

[Paul]

Just freakin' commit to something and get out there and commit to driving it instead of throwing parts at it!!!

If it helps, you can be like Paul and smoke lots of cigarettes!!

What the hell does that have to do with it?

I drove more this year than any two of you!

ps: my STi was 3149 at Nationals.

[Paul]

I think you should consider it Jason just because it would be fun.

[hancheyb]

What the hell does that have to do with it?

I drove more this year than any two of you!

ps: my STi was 3149 at Nationals.

Over sensitive Paul at it again.

I really like this idea simply from the standpoint that it gets you back to a two car family. As much as all of us want to be Todd-like, having a newer truck, new trailer, new FX can strain anyone's budget. And from personal experience, driving your car daily that you autocross is priceless experience. Just being THAT comfortable with the car helps (except when you hit a cone at Nationals. )

Maybe you keep the trailer just in case someone needs it or buys a truck. Still leaves you with one less car to keep clean and maintain too.

[John in Houston]

If you just wanted us to agree with you, you should have stated that.

If you wanted us to blow wind up McCalls skirt, you should have stated that.

Instead, you got supportable facts which state that it's probably not the best vehicle to start with IF you want to win.

If you want to just run and maybe do well locally, then it's an excellent platform.

[hancheyb]

Who's saying they want agreement? I give you Casey Weiss who regularly beats us in a FS car. F STOCK. He almost beat Mark Sipe's B stock car locally and both were at the top of PAX (of course). Casey's on 16" tires too (I don't know the width). So if a stock Z28 on race tires is fast, is it that far fetched that a well sorted chassis on street tires could do well? I don't think anyone knows for sure.

So what is so wrong with the F body? Just because aside from Casey there aren't that many Nationally prepared cars driving anymore it should be ruled out?

I think Jason should:

1. Run at TMS with his Kumhos and current car and see if he beats us.
2. If he does, buy Falkens for his current car and try again.
3. If he still beats us, build a car for STU.

Jason, wants a car that is competitive and different. I certainly think this idea can happen in months vs. years for the Canta/Won'ta.

[Oversteer]

I don't see where a 4th gen is are obscenely outclassed for STU...

Anybody wanna do the research and find the numerous posts by Fair proclaiming the F-Body as being the porkiest POS on the road and how he'd never own (or advocate owning) one of those awful cars again?

[hancheyb]

Yeah, but McCall still loves 'em.

[Dean!]

Just flashing back like Lost on points brought up many months ago:

1. There was a time there was Jason "F the SCCA and their Rules - RUN WHAT YA BRUNG" McCall.

2. There was a time when it would be impossible to sell the current 398RWHP LT1 Blue Smurf Formula for what you already have in it for any decent money.

3. You sold your beautiful LT4 Trans Am because you wanted to buy a "it's done" car, and not spend the same amount of money on your current LT4 (Yea, I never understood this one...but hey...)

You want to give up a 400rwhp car so you can race on STREET TIRES ?? For what motivation was that ? Is this another Fair-pressure tactic ?

You want to give up your 400rwhp MILDLY modded car that is capable of MSR (Motorsports Ranch, not Mike Sen Roy) duty, drag race duty, and SM autocross duty on 315/35/17's and maybe 335/30/17's ?

Who's car out of any of us could whip up in drag duty, track duty, and autocross duty with 315/35 ***V710's*** - I think only your car stands out as an all purpose car. Put some A/C and why couldn't you drive your LT1 more ? We average over 150K miles on our LT1 C******s

But no, you want to go from 315/35 or 335/30 **V710's** to heat soaking, "Spray Me with Water after a 40 second run" 275/40 Azenis ?!??

Now everyone else will disagree on the next part, but if your passion is getting to race your car, I still think the BMW and PCA events are great. 8 runs for the same amount of money as SCCA and cheaper than ER with Rapide Pax - on 1.5+ mile courses.

You guys call them Special Olympics - but what motivates your competition --- knowing that you beat everyone in STU or knowing that you beat every single car at a BMW or PCA event ? Then, if you beat them, how about seeing if you can consistently put 2 seconds on every single car for TTOD, then 4 seconds.....RUN WHAT YA BRUNG - have the baddest street car out there. (And you can do all of this while still being legal for SM)

[John in Houston]

Who's saying they want agreement? I give you Casey Weiss who regularly beats us in a FS car.

... and would probably beat you in your car in your class. The point being?

So what is so wrong with the F body? Just because aside from Casey there aren't that many Nationally prepared cars driving anymore it should be ruled out?

Is it THE car you would run in STU? No.

Jason, wants a car that is competitive and different. I certainly think this idea can happen in months vs. years for the Canta/Won'ta.

...and nobody said he shouldn't. Will he be competitive... locally yes. Regionally, maybe. Nationally, highly doubtful.

[hancheyb]

...and nobody said he shouldn't. Will he be competitive... locally yes. Regionally, maybe. Nationally, highly doubtful.

Hold up, 3 of the trophies <cough, should have been 5, cough> at Nationals this year were in our region. I think he'd have a pretty good idea if he was nationally competitive right here in the Texas Region. Which is why my three step process should be worth exploring.

[John in Houston]

Hold up, 3 of the trophies <cough, should have been 5, cough> at Nationals this year were in our region. I think he'd have a pretty good idea if he was nationally competitive right here in the Texas Region. Which is why my three step process should be worth exploring.

..and at the same time, was the class 'truly' a competitive class? Was it a strong class? Were you faster then STX given similar conditions?

Damn, I finished just out of trophies in the first year of SM in an overweight fox-body. Is that the car to have for SM?

I'll reiterate... no one has said he should not do it. No one (just re-read the whole thread).

[hancheyb]

OK, fine. No one has said don't do it.

I honestly believe a COMPETITIVE STU car was at the Divisional at Mineral Wells this year. Terry and I had the car hooked up on Day 2 of that event. Maybe a better driver could have gone faster, but I believe the car was about as good as it gets that day. So, if Terry and I have it that hooked up, and Jason runs with us, I think he has a Nationally competitive car. If the car was working that good at Nationals, we would have run a 122.x combined vs. the class winning 125.x total. I think it had a 61 on both courses in it. That's really not exagerating either. Now is a 122 competitive? I think so, but I also think that we'll make changes to it to get a 121.x total next year assuming we drive well and actually go to the warmup.

BTW, STX ran in the rain on the only course that was the same, so no way to compare there. STX's version of the north couse was 3-5s shorter. If we beat Tommy at Divisionals next year, I'd say we're doing well.

[turbotoddie]

Not to throw gas on the fire, or Paul's cigarettes8-P,
but Min Wells is not a good comparison for any real autox issues. The course was way bigger, faster and gripless compared to Natls.

Which made Hanchey and Fair's competitiveness at MW more impressive.

It would be interesting to see if it could be done with a 4th gen but the rain would lead to an AWD car. Secondly, if you could have IRS vs hp, I would have to go with IRS for autox. Just remember every time we said a course was a power course, then a Miata still prevailed.

Boost is cool, but all of these cars break and are very expensive/hard to work on. The other side says look at ESP and how all of these no names came to the front of the class. Imagine what a driver could do!

turbotoddie