Finding the candidate for the Ultimate DSP BMW E36 or E46...

[Fair!]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

Teucci.... you are such a bad influence! A already found a 300Ci 5-spd no sunroof car for $8000! Link



I'm calling on some cars now...

[murph]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

you know a 330 won DSP last year, right? Did I mention it wasn't a full-bore build?

[murph]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

Also, I'd recommend the 4 door. Not only is it more convenient, but in the E46 the four door is also lighter and stiffer.

[Paul]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

Doug Rowse won last year but did not trophy this year.

T 1 198 Doug Rowse 2003 BMW 330i Kumho Arizona 44.319(2) 39.427 43.592(2) 81.772
[98] Phoenix, AZ SP DNF 42.564 42.345


11 196 Doug Rowse 2003 BMW 330i Hoosier Arizona Reg 60.585 61.958(1) 62.037(1) 119.245
[96] Phoenix, AZ SP 76.895(1) 58.660 58.827 (0.009)

If he was clean he would have placed 9th I think.

-Paul

[hancheyb]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

How's this car getting to events with no truck or trailer?

[Fair!]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

How's this car getting to events with no truck or trailer?

I'll get another truck and trailer, eventually. For a while it could be driven to events.

[Chris]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

If you're gonna drive it to events, get a 4-door. 4 Tires fit easily in the back seat of my car (even 18x10s and 285s)

[Paul]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

Here is the correct 2009 SCCA appendix A listing for DSP:

Street Prepared Class D:

BMW
2002 tii (all)
325 & 328 (E30)
323, 325, & 328 (E36)
328 & 330(E46) (all except M3) <--- this is you Terry
3 Series (16V NOC)

I think this eliminates any concerns voiced about the legality regarding update/backdate limitations for the e46 chassis. There is none, the e46 is wide open with the exception of the M3.

-Paul

[hancheyb]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

What was the issue with the E46? Swapping a 3.0L in a 323i because they weren't together? Groner has (or had) a good DSP candidate. Just needed bumpers and some body work for under $5k? 4d too.

[Fair!]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

Here is the correct 2009 SCCA appendix A listing for DSP:

Street Prepared Class D:

BMW
2002 tii (all)
325 & 328 (E30)
323, 325, & 328 (E36)
328 & 330(E46) (all except M3) <--- this is you Terry
3 Series (16V NOC)

Weird... I researched this and took that screenshot from the Appendix A listing on SCCA.com in the last week. You'd think they'd have the latest one up there. Where'd you find that listing, Paul? That one you show does make a LOT more sense, and removes any worry about updating/backdating between the 330's and the other various non-M E46 6 cylinder models (323, 325, 328 etc).

As for 4 doors... mmm.... maybe its all vanity or maybe there's an engineering reason somewhere subconsciously, but I think the 2 door is the better car to start with for a race car. I've heard the internet tales that "the 4 door E46 is lighter and stronger", but have never seen proof of that. It just doesn't make sense to me. Looking at the unibodies for both the E36 and E46 chassis in 2 and 4 door versions I would make the educated guess that the 2 door is slightly lighter (not by much - 10s of pounds?) but has a good bit more better torsional rigidity. Adding 2 doors (big openings, filled with hinged steel components and glass) tends to not make a car lighter or stronger.

I know the 2 door E46 cars are fairly different, and share almost no body parts in common with the 4 door, so maybe they magically made the 4 door lighter and stronger... I just don't buy it. For the same reasons I'm insisting on a non-sunroof candidate (weight, rigidity), I'm going to keep my search restricted to the 2 door chassis - whether its an E46 or E46 (I still don't know for sure!).



I could see where the 4 door would be easier to add a full cage to, and this plus lower initial chassis costs could be why more road racers start with the 4 door chassis (until recently there was a large discrepancy in used car prices for 2 and 4 door E46 cars - I've been looking for years - probably because the 2 door version came out a year later, and was always sold in much smaller volumes). A bunch of pro and semi pro racers built E46 4 door race cars initially (Bimmerworld, others) so the herd follows... and possibly justifies it with rumors of "lighter, stronger" without facts. The ZHP also came out in the 4 door before the 2 door, which was odd, so buyers flocked to the 4 door in even greater numbers. I won't argue that a 4 door makes more sense for a street car, of course.


This just doesn't do it for me...

The other problem with 4 door BMWs comes into play when you do need to add flares. I'm still not 100% sure I can stuff the 18x10s and 285s under the stock fenders of any E46... I think its going to be easier than under the fenders of an E36, of course. The 2 door versions have more room in front of the rear wheel openings than 4 doors for the flares.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

[Redwood]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

The only thing I can think of would be maybe that since the coupe comes with fold down rear seats standard and the sedan doesn't, that it has increased rigidity for that reason. I know the Mazdaspeed6 removed folding seats to make it stiffer, but they also added a cross beam at the same time for stiffness. I'm sure it blocked any folding seats. This is just a theory, but if the lack of folding seats makes it a little stiffer, I think the brace bar you'll add in the rear will be the first to take any twisting forces put on the chassis back there, negating most of or all of any difference from the folding seats. I don't think the doors make that much difference on that front. Maybe since they are frame doors instead of frameless, maybe? I can't see the weight difference being signficant and if anything, I'd guess the extra doors added a few pounds. BMW has always listed the same weights for the E36 and E46 coupes/sedans. They don't with the E9x.

In 10 years when this topic comes up again, I'm going to nip the future argument in the bud. The E92 chassis is 25 percent stiffer than the E90 sedan. You will race a coupe.

[GotCone?]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

BUY This : http://www.drivingforcemotorsports.com/BMW.htm

Equip w/ AST's

Win.

[Fair!]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

BUY This : http://www.drivingforcemotorsports.com/BMW.htm

Equip w/ AST's

Win.

Yea, that's a good price (he's dropped it $3000 since the last time I saw it for sale) for what you get. I'm going to think about it...

[GotCone?]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

price has dropped the last two years... It's been 15.5 all of 09... so one would think you could offer even less than that and still get a hold of it.

[murph]

Re: Building the Ultimate DSP classed BMW E36?

Doug Rowse won last year but did not trophy this year.

Doug's diff (or something thereabouts) blew up on his first run and he and his codriver (who did trophy) had to finish in an unfamiliar car.