SCCA TT Letter Post # 1: In this forum topic we will address the brand new ruleset that was released last week for the new SCCA National Time Trial series. We will point out what works best in the NASA TT rules and why. We will also point out what we like better about the proposed SCCA TT series and rules. This is not meant as a mean spirited attack on either series - the both have their pluses and minuses - but more of a look at where the Time Trial scene is in 2018.
We built this car initially for SCCA STX class, but had much better success in NASA, Optima and GTA time trial classes
We at Vorshlag have been racing in NASA Time Trials since 2006, SCCA Club Trials since 2014, Global Time Attack since 2012, and Optima series Time Trial events since 2011. We have also been racing in SCCA Solo since the late 1980s, and have run with many other groups in timed competition events across the country.
At Vorshlag we are building about a dozen cars at any given time for NASA and/or SCCA competition use, including 4 shop owned cars
We design and build suspension components that cover dozens of car models and also build race cars in our shop (above). We are not in the pocket of any racing group, are not restricted to one car type/marquee, do not harbor blind product brand loyalties, and do no limit ourselves to one form of racing over another... we just do as many Time Trial and autocross events we can find. All of this combined gives us a unique perspective.
To us, the addition of a National SCCA Time Trial series only adds to the opportunities for us (and our customers) to race! Our hope is that the SCCA TT Board (and maybe NASA people, too) read our suggestions herein, reach out for any follow up questions, and that some of you reading this will also write similar letters to the SCCA TT Board email address above.
We have tried to build some of our cars around both SCCA autocross and NASA TT class rules - which can be difficult
Why do we care? Well it starts in our own back yard. The Texas Region SCCA Club Trials series (this north Texas SCCA region has 950+ members) has been running their time trial events for the last 4 years, and it has grown tremendously. Just in the North Texas area they have 7 stand-alone Club Trials events scheduled for 2018. They use SCCA autocross prep rules, grouped into 8 classes with some modifiers, which do not always port over well to a road course. They were one of the first SCCA regions to host a series of timed road course TT event with results, and lots of autocrossers jumped into this series to get their first taste of a road course with times. Many were hooked, including a lot of our HPDE customers here at Vorshlag. Competition breeds better customers: faster drivers need more of our parts to stay ahead of the competition, so we welcomed it. We have competed with Club Trials here every year since they started.
Some of the 37 Club Trials competitors at the Texas Region SCCA event May 7, 2017
The growth within the NASA series of HPDE/TT/W2W events did not go unnoticed by others. Due to what looks like dwindling numbers in SCCA Road Racing (nee "Club Racing") and some success with their "Track Night in America" events (their lower cost HPDE series run on weeknights, with little to no instruction), the SCCA added their new TT series in January 2018 at the National level.
SCCA ANNOUNCES NEW TIME TRIAL NATIONALS EVENT + SERIES
http://www.sccahq.com/time-trials-rules/
In mid January 2018 the SCCA announced their own National TT Championship and in February they announced the rules outline for the National TT Series linked above.
This was an ambitious first stab at a series of 17 Time Trial classes spread over 4 "levels", and it had some brilliant changes that we liked - namely two entire categories of classes that are built around 200 treadwear tires (more on that below). I was excited enough by their pitch at an SCCA awards banquet in February that I went out and bought a brand new car to build for this series. I'm putting some skin in the game with some regional Club Trials sponsorship, too. (we already sponsor Texas Region SCCA autocross events as well as the NASA NOLA Time Trial series)
But the new, undeveloped, SCCA TT ruleset also has some admitted flaws that they know need to be addressed before the trial period ends in the next few weeks and the TT Board locks down the rules for 2018. Instead of writing detailed private emails to a board of 4-5 people, we instead decided to post it here on our forum and then send the link to the new SCCA TT Board.
SCCA TT Board: ttb@scca.com <- send your constructive rules comments here
SCCA ROAD RACING AND TIME TRIAL: SEPARATE EVENTS?
SCCA announced their first TT Championship scheduled for September 28-30th, 2018, at NCM. It will be a stand-alone event separate from SCCA's Road Racing Nationals (aka: Runoffs).
One of two TT Grids at NASA Nationals, Miller Motorsport Park, 2013
NASA held its first National Championship in 2006 but has never had a separate Time Trial Championship. Instead NASA runs TT and W2W groups on the same Championship race weekend. The SCCA seems to want to keep their W2W Road Race and Time Trial weekends and championships separate. This is neither good nor bad, just different. Financially it might be smarter to combine them (to save costs on track rental, emergency crews, and corner workers), but that's their business. I suspect there is substantial push back from the old school SCCA Club Racers - they want all the track time, no sharing of weekends with HPDE and Time Trial customers.
NASA runs HPDE cars (left) in their own run groups, Time Trial cars in another, and W2W in their own race groups at the same track
The issue with keeping HPDE + TT and W2W racing separate is that it could limit growth within an organization, with no obvious "feeder series". NASA Texas regularly has more TT competitors in a race weekend than all of the entrants in a local SCCA Club Race event, plus NASA has paying customers in HPDE and W2W too. NASA has used their established ladder series of HPDE, Time Trial, and W2W amateur racing series to grow - this ladder is unique in club level motorsports in this country, if not the world. They run all 3 types of activities at the same track on the same weekends. It seems a bit hectic with 3-4 HPDE groups, one TT group, and 2-4 W2W race groups, but it works.
The owner of this white Mustang ran in NASA HPDE for 3 years, but was "scouted" and encouraged to move up by a Race Director
The advantage of running your HPDE drivers at the same event as your TT and W2W racers (like NASA does) is that your HPDE beginners are exposed to W2W racers. HPDE and TT makes for an on-site pool of future talent that Race Directors can scout from. This cross-pollination of HPDE folks with racers does lead to a progression of drivers from HPDE -> TT -> W2W. This helps the HPDE drivers grow, with instructors mostly picked from the TT racers, and it moves people up the ladder. Which in turn grows the events and NASA membership. Our NASA Texas region didn't exist before the early 2000s and now has track events with 200+ participants regularly over 6-8 events per season. Just a data point to consider for the long term.
COMMONALITY WITHIN TT RULES BREEDS CROSSOVER & GROWTH
We want the SCCA to make a successful TT series, hopefully by looking at what we are pointing out that has worked well in NASA TT. We also hope that NASA takes note of some of the better SCCA ideas and mimics them in their series as well (200 treadwear classes).
We have built most of our cars around SCCA and NASA rules and "crossed over" for many years (EVO X: SCCA STU and NASA TTB)
How could both series grow? Wouldn't the success of one TT series diminish the other? The reality is that most folks are not "loyal" to one series or club. It's common that once a car is prepped, the owner will take it to multiple series if the rules/classes are close enough. We have done it with cars built to SCCA rules that we also run in NASA Time Trial. BMWCCA has racers that run crossover classes with NASA (GTS is close to some CCA classes). PCA has some Spec series that NASA recognizes (Spec 944, Spec Boxtser), and the most famous of them all...
Spec Miata runs in both SCCA and NASA with only minor differences (mostly tires). Lots of crossover potential!
Spec Miata is the biggest example, and with only minior changes a SM racer can run in SCCA and NASA. This is how we have seen fields of 60-80+ Spec Miatas at events - they are drawing racers from two clubs. We feel that the closer that SCCA's and NASA's TT rules become, the easier it is for TT drivers to participate in both, encouraging more crossover participation.
NASA TT comp license - $10 to renew each year, but it allows me to run with other TT groups
We also hope that the two clubs recognize each others' TT licensing. NASA has a rigorous series of driver check rides to move up from their HPDE1-HPDE4, that have to be done by NASA Instructors. When they ask for a TT Check ride this is done by the TT Director, Chief Instructor, or TT driver they designate - then they can be checked off for their Time Trial license. Texas Region SCCA Club Trials series has recognized NASA TT licenses, and I have used my NASA TT comp license to move directly into GTA, into "Red" groups with HPDE clubs I have never run with, etc. I hope the National SCCA Time Trials series reciprocates.
There is another crossover potential that BOTH the SCCA and NASA need to wake up and recognize - the amazing growth of 200 treadwear endurance road racing. A number of years ago racers started by building and racing $500 crap cans in Lemons, but with some commonality in rules a massive number of series and race teams have popped up. This spread to Chumpcar (now ChampCar), WRL, AER and more.
These competing Endurance series have started to somewhat merge and stabilize their rules, so a team that builds for WRL can also run Champcar and the others. The theory of "A rising tide lifts all boats" applies to these series just like NASA and SCCA Time Trial could both grow with more attractive rule sets and some commonality/crossover.
(Oh and by the way - NASA and SCCA both need to get off their butts and create a 200 treadwear endurance road racing series that is in-line with the others!)
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We built this car initially for SCCA STX class, but had much better success in NASA, Optima and GTA time trial classes
We at Vorshlag have been racing in NASA Time Trials since 2006, SCCA Club Trials since 2014, Global Time Attack since 2012, and Optima series Time Trial events since 2011. We have also been racing in SCCA Solo since the late 1980s, and have run with many other groups in timed competition events across the country.
At Vorshlag we are building about a dozen cars at any given time for NASA and/or SCCA competition use, including 4 shop owned cars
We design and build suspension components that cover dozens of car models and also build race cars in our shop (above). We are not in the pocket of any racing group, are not restricted to one car type/marquee, do not harbor blind product brand loyalties, and do no limit ourselves to one form of racing over another... we just do as many Time Trial and autocross events we can find. All of this combined gives us a unique perspective.
To us, the addition of a National SCCA Time Trial series only adds to the opportunities for us (and our customers) to race! Our hope is that the SCCA TT Board (and maybe NASA people, too) read our suggestions herein, reach out for any follow up questions, and that some of you reading this will also write similar letters to the SCCA TT Board email address above.
We have tried to build some of our cars around both SCCA autocross and NASA TT class rules - which can be difficult
Why do we care? Well it starts in our own back yard. The Texas Region SCCA Club Trials series (this north Texas SCCA region has 950+ members) has been running their time trial events for the last 4 years, and it has grown tremendously. Just in the North Texas area they have 7 stand-alone Club Trials events scheduled for 2018. They use SCCA autocross prep rules, grouped into 8 classes with some modifiers, which do not always port over well to a road course. They were one of the first SCCA regions to host a series of timed road course TT event with results, and lots of autocrossers jumped into this series to get their first taste of a road course with times. Many were hooked, including a lot of our HPDE customers here at Vorshlag. Competition breeds better customers: faster drivers need more of our parts to stay ahead of the competition, so we welcomed it. We have competed with Club Trials here every year since they started.
Some of the 37 Club Trials competitors at the Texas Region SCCA event May 7, 2017
The growth within the NASA series of HPDE/TT/W2W events did not go unnoticed by others. Due to what looks like dwindling numbers in SCCA Road Racing (nee "Club Racing") and some success with their "Track Night in America" events (their lower cost HPDE series run on weeknights, with little to no instruction), the SCCA added their new TT series in January 2018 at the National level.
SCCA ANNOUNCES NEW TIME TRIAL NATIONALS EVENT + SERIES
http://www.sccahq.com/time-trials-rules/
In mid January 2018 the SCCA announced their own National TT Championship and in February they announced the rules outline for the National TT Series linked above.
This was an ambitious first stab at a series of 17 Time Trial classes spread over 4 "levels", and it had some brilliant changes that we liked - namely two entire categories of classes that are built around 200 treadwear tires (more on that below). I was excited enough by their pitch at an SCCA awards banquet in February that I went out and bought a brand new car to build for this series. I'm putting some skin in the game with some regional Club Trials sponsorship, too. (we already sponsor Texas Region SCCA autocross events as well as the NASA NOLA Time Trial series)
But the new, undeveloped, SCCA TT ruleset also has some admitted flaws that they know need to be addressed before the trial period ends in the next few weeks and the TT Board locks down the rules for 2018. Instead of writing detailed private emails to a board of 4-5 people, we instead decided to post it here on our forum and then send the link to the new SCCA TT Board.
SCCA TT Board: ttb@scca.com <- send your constructive rules comments here
SCCA ROAD RACING AND TIME TRIAL: SEPARATE EVENTS?
SCCA announced their first TT Championship scheduled for September 28-30th, 2018, at NCM. It will be a stand-alone event separate from SCCA's Road Racing Nationals (aka: Runoffs).
One of two TT Grids at NASA Nationals, Miller Motorsport Park, 2013
NASA held its first National Championship in 2006 but has never had a separate Time Trial Championship. Instead NASA runs TT and W2W groups on the same Championship race weekend. The SCCA seems to want to keep their W2W Road Race and Time Trial weekends and championships separate. This is neither good nor bad, just different. Financially it might be smarter to combine them (to save costs on track rental, emergency crews, and corner workers), but that's their business. I suspect there is substantial push back from the old school SCCA Club Racers - they want all the track time, no sharing of weekends with HPDE and Time Trial customers.
NASA runs HPDE cars (left) in their own run groups, Time Trial cars in another, and W2W in their own race groups at the same track
The issue with keeping HPDE + TT and W2W racing separate is that it could limit growth within an organization, with no obvious "feeder series". NASA Texas regularly has more TT competitors in a race weekend than all of the entrants in a local SCCA Club Race event, plus NASA has paying customers in HPDE and W2W too. NASA has used their established ladder series of HPDE, Time Trial, and W2W amateur racing series to grow - this ladder is unique in club level motorsports in this country, if not the world. They run all 3 types of activities at the same track on the same weekends. It seems a bit hectic with 3-4 HPDE groups, one TT group, and 2-4 W2W race groups, but it works.
The owner of this white Mustang ran in NASA HPDE for 3 years, but was "scouted" and encouraged to move up by a Race Director
The advantage of running your HPDE drivers at the same event as your TT and W2W racers (like NASA does) is that your HPDE beginners are exposed to W2W racers. HPDE and TT makes for an on-site pool of future talent that Race Directors can scout from. This cross-pollination of HPDE folks with racers does lead to a progression of drivers from HPDE -> TT -> W2W. This helps the HPDE drivers grow, with instructors mostly picked from the TT racers, and it moves people up the ladder. Which in turn grows the events and NASA membership. Our NASA Texas region didn't exist before the early 2000s and now has track events with 200+ participants regularly over 6-8 events per season. Just a data point to consider for the long term.
COMMONALITY WITHIN TT RULES BREEDS CROSSOVER & GROWTH
We want the SCCA to make a successful TT series, hopefully by looking at what we are pointing out that has worked well in NASA TT. We also hope that NASA takes note of some of the better SCCA ideas and mimics them in their series as well (200 treadwear classes).
We have built most of our cars around SCCA and NASA rules and "crossed over" for many years (EVO X: SCCA STU and NASA TTB)
How could both series grow? Wouldn't the success of one TT series diminish the other? The reality is that most folks are not "loyal" to one series or club. It's common that once a car is prepped, the owner will take it to multiple series if the rules/classes are close enough. We have done it with cars built to SCCA rules that we also run in NASA Time Trial. BMWCCA has racers that run crossover classes with NASA (GTS is close to some CCA classes). PCA has some Spec series that NASA recognizes (Spec 944, Spec Boxtser), and the most famous of them all...
Spec Miata runs in both SCCA and NASA with only minor differences (mostly tires). Lots of crossover potential!
Spec Miata is the biggest example, and with only minior changes a SM racer can run in SCCA and NASA. This is how we have seen fields of 60-80+ Spec Miatas at events - they are drawing racers from two clubs. We feel that the closer that SCCA's and NASA's TT rules become, the easier it is for TT drivers to participate in both, encouraging more crossover participation.
NASA TT comp license - $10 to renew each year, but it allows me to run with other TT groups
We also hope that the two clubs recognize each others' TT licensing. NASA has a rigorous series of driver check rides to move up from their HPDE1-HPDE4, that have to be done by NASA Instructors. When they ask for a TT Check ride this is done by the TT Director, Chief Instructor, or TT driver they designate - then they can be checked off for their Time Trial license. Texas Region SCCA Club Trials series has recognized NASA TT licenses, and I have used my NASA TT comp license to move directly into GTA, into "Red" groups with HPDE clubs I have never run with, etc. I hope the National SCCA Time Trials series reciprocates.
There is another crossover potential that BOTH the SCCA and NASA need to wake up and recognize - the amazing growth of 200 treadwear endurance road racing. A number of years ago racers started by building and racing $500 crap cans in Lemons, but with some commonality in rules a massive number of series and race teams have popped up. This spread to Chumpcar (now ChampCar), WRL, AER and more.
These competing Endurance series have started to somewhat merge and stabilize their rules, so a team that builds for WRL can also run Champcar and the others. The theory of "A rising tide lifts all boats" applies to these series just like NASA and SCCA Time Trial could both grow with more attractive rule sets and some commonality/crossover.
(Oh and by the way - NASA and SCCA both need to get off their butts and create a 200 treadwear endurance road racing series that is in-line with the others!)
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