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  • #76
    Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

    Project Update for July 6, 2011: Lots of little things going on with our Mustang since the last post. Apologies in advance for the pictures - I left my Nikon at McCall's on Friday (working on his Z3 LS1) so I took all of these with my iPhone. Let me catch everyone up...



    FCS1219311: 2011 MUSTANG WORKSHOP MANUAL @ $180.00/set

    The 2 volume Helms Ford Factory Manuals were finally printed for the 2011 Mustang, and we got ours last week. Now we can hopefully find all of the little fixes and tricks to maximize everything. I looked in the power steering section - zero diagnostics help.



    As you can see above we have added some underhood silliness, above... I'm normally not one for "bling" but most of this round of mods has a purpose.

    I'm sure the blue coil covers will get some "ricer!" grief, but oh well. So I started by removing the coil covers (they pop off in seconds), then cleaned them with soap/water, then wiped them with alcohol. Next came five sprayed on coats of Rust-oleum "Ford Blue" high heat engine paint and then a couple of coats of Rust-oleum "High Performance Wheel Paint" clear coat. It was super easy to get these off and on, and only took about 30 minutes of work (plus drying time). This blue matches the 2012 Boss 302. Yea, its just flash, and all of the guys here at Vorshlag were hating on this mod, as was my wife Amy ("What next, a Superman cape?!"), but its an authentic tribute to the new Boss 302, so screw you guys!



    Next up was the JLT oil separator catch can kit for the 2011-2012 5.0 and Boss 302. We picked the the "Passenger Side Kit" ($119) and it installs in literally seconds. Two squeezed clamps (which you can un-snap by hand) to remove the old vacuum tube, then the kit pops on in place - the hose from the intake to the passenger side valve cover. During high RPM use (and really the subsequent "high vacuum" period on engine deceleration) it will catch the oil vapors (separates and traps it in the catch can) instead of burning it inside the engine. I've seen guys track these 5.0s start pushing oil out into the air cleaner, but its usually people that live on the rev limiter. Last up is the Redline Tuning Gas Strut hood lift kit, which I also got from JLT. This simple to install $84 kit comes with all of the goodies to replace the stupid stock hood prop rod. If you park into the wind and leave the hood up (which we do often at the drag strip, road course events and autocross events) the hood can rattle and flop around, even fall off the prop rod. Now that we have real hood struts, these issues are resolved.



    Last up, the video of the "Electronic steering shudder" feedback issue we've run into on our car:



    This video describes what we're seeing and shows in in great detail. If you know anyone at Ford and would like to send them this link, please do! Also, anyone road racing the new Boss302S (with the same electric steering) - have you seen this?

    We're not trying to blame Ford for a poor design, just want to find the sensor or broken wiring or whatever is causing this horrendous cyclical feedback in the steering. Its actually pretty dangerous... once it happens you have to pull over and almost come to a complete stop to get it to stop. And its getting worse; it happened to me yesterday twice, on the highway, going perfectly straight.

    Yes, we might have inadvertently done something to cause this - I'm looking for the solution, and I'm willing to pay for new parts if its our fault. We've pulled out the "excessive" negative camber up front (that someone suggested as the cause), and zero'd the front toe, but so far nothing has fixed it. Any suggestions or "its happened to us too!" experiences are welcomed.

    Thanks,
    Last edited by Fair!; 07-06-2011, 06:30 PM.
    Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
    2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
    EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

      RE: Power Steering Problem

      I was informed how to fix this problem. I'll share when we are back in town next week.
      Brian Hanchey
      AST Suspension - USA

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

        Originally posted by hancheyb View Post
        RE: Power Steering Problem

        I was informed how to fix this problem. I'll share when we are back in town next week.
        How bout the cooling issues?

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

          Originally posted by hancheyb View Post
          RE: Power Steering Problem

          I was informed how to fix this problem. I'll share when we are back in town next week.
          We found a TSB for an "EPAS" software update... or is this something more, that the race teams had figured out? Kinda figured if anyone would know the answer it would be the WC or GA teams running the 2011 GT or Boss302S...
          Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
          2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
          EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

            Mini-update for July 8, 2011: Just a few pictures of the first prototype S197 Mustang, D-Force/Vorshlag, 5-spoke 18x10" wheel shown on our 2011 Mustang GT. This is the first stab at getting the offsets right, and we know we might be going back and tweaking the numbers slightly. We wanted to get a grasp on weights (18.7 lbs) and caliper clearance on this first 18x10" set before we ask for changes to the molds.



            They clear the front Brembo 14" rotors and calipers by a huge margin up front, and it looks like the offset we have might just work front and rear. Its hard to tell without tires mounted, and just slapping them on at full suspension droop. On Monday we'll mount up some tires and post more pictures.



            The rear can go inboard another inch, and we might move the wheel inboard 5-7mm to gain fender clearance out back. Again, we'll know more when we get tires mounted and have the whole set on the car. If they fit we'll start street/track testing them right away.



            So far I'm very happy with the initial test fit - stay tuned for more information about this wheel. And yes, we're trying to make it fit GR chassis Subarus as well (which shares the 5x114.3mm bolt circle). Costs should be "affordable" (read: sub-$350) given the quality, light weight, and somewhat narrow market range for a 10" wheel like this, with ETA for production at 12-24 weeks. This is an exclusive D-Force wheel offering that will be stocked and sold by Vorshlag.

            Cheers,
            Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
            2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
            EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

              Make mine Black with polished rim (like my M3 wheels)!!

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                Originally posted by John in Houston View Post
                How bout the cooling issues?

                Forgot to ask about that. None of them run the factory radiator. I did notice that.
                Brian Hanchey
                AST Suspension - USA

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                  Project Update for July 13, 2011: Just some minor updates here, and last weekend's autocross report. Let's see, we had the car at an SCCA Texas Region autocross event last weekend, this time with some real STX competition again and a good course design.

                  Competitive drives put in by Brad Maxcy in his 328is and Chris Ledbetter and Brian Buchanan in Chris' 328is gave us some solid times to compare to. Costas co-drove the Mustang for the first time since April, blowing out the cob webs and trying to learn the new throttle mapping - with some other fun, new "challenges" to drive around.



                  I get to the event and unload the Mustang from the trailer (scraping both the nose and the tail on the trailer ramp - new 74" long Race Ramps ordered from SPS and should here by this weekend), go to set the shocks at our normal race settings, and... one of them is stuck. Damn! This can happen to any shock if its dropped, which might have happened last week when removing, reinstalling, or taking the shocks to be dyno'd (explanation why at bottom). This should not have been found while at a race, of course, and we had a talk about "checking all shock settings immediately after they are installed" in our Monday morning meeting at Vorshlag. So we've got a single rear shock stuck, either full soft or full hard. How much could that affect the handling? This sounds like a great test in the making.



                  It turns out, it affects handling a lot. Reinforces my "Shocks matter" mantra. Remember, this shock was still functioning properly, just with the adjustment stuck, as it turns out at full hard (stiff) in the Rebound range. The lateral grip was very different left to right, as a result. Made it a challenge on this somewhat tight autocross course today. Watching Amy and Costas drive through a particular offset compared to the 328is STX cars was dramatically different. Left turns were just a royal b!tch all day.



                  We also had a LOT of tire heat to deal with, especially Costas and me running back to back in STX class in heat 3. You see it was 100°F, and Amy ran in heat 2 by herself. She sprayed the tires after her 1st, 2nd and 3rd runs, to keep the tires within operating temperature for her next run. After her 4th run she was in 2nd place, a scant .053 sec behind Jen Maxcy, both running STX cars in the PAXed "W" class. She didn't spray tires - why would she? She was done for the day.



                  Immediately after her last the final run, heat (3) of the day started, and it was an abnormally small group. This meant that the 2 driver cars had little to no time between runs. Well the tire sprayer decided to die that day - it wasn't holding pressure and water just dribbled out of the spray tip. No jokes, please. So we started with hot tires and couldn't ever get the tire carcass or tread cool enough to even touch, and with just 2-3 minutes between 1st and 2nd drivers it was a thrash just to get the driver and numbers changed, much less splash a little water on the tires. So from our first runs on, we had boiling hot tires - especially the rears. Makes putting 392 whp through 265mm street tires on a sealed asphalt surface that much more impossible.



                  Costas and I both also heard some hideously LOUD noise in one turn, which spooked us both, so we had to investigate. We took a 1 minute "mechanical" to peek underneath, but we didn't see anything at the time. It wasn't leaking or obvious, so we drove thought the noise. Turns out we had two issues with things rubbing. First, a tire was rubbing on the inner fender well at full steering lock and full cornering load, which we saw in one corner only. No big deal. Second, the OEM end link bolts were dragging on the inner frame section at full droop, which was LOUD. The Eibach front swaybar we used was the 2005-2010 bar, so maybe the ends are slightly more inboard than the 2011? Whatever, we are fixing that in the shop now. And the steering shudder was ever present at any corner above 35 mph.

                  As you can see in the STX class results, I started out "in the hunt" after Run 1, just a few tenths behind Ledbetter and Maxcy. I found some time, but Brad Maxcy found a lot more (and PAXed #3 for the event), and had me by 1.3 sec at day's end. Ledbetter and his co-driver (2nd and 3rd in class) also got faster, and were in the same second as me after 4 runs, but still well ahead, PAXing 10th and 11th, with me in 15th in PAX and 4th class. Ugh. Costas was trying to learn the new throttle/power parameters of the car after 10 weeks away from autocrossing, and eventually managed to put in a time good enough for 5th (with a scratch time that was closer).

                  We were not happy with the day's results, at all. You can hear that at the end of my Run 3 video. But when you add up the comic amount of things going wrong - steering shudder, the full stiff rear shock, the massively overheated tires, and loud suspension noise up front - I guess we couldn't expect more than we got. We did see another data point in an ongoing trend at this SCCA event - AST shocks were on all 5 of the top 5 in PAX results, and 11 of the top 15, and these were all Vorshlag/AST testers.




                  So we have a lot of new parts here this week to install and test, and another 2-day Divisional autocross this coming weekend. We've got to see some serious improvement in the car, and soon, or it will be a blood bath at Nationals and we might have to wait until we get the car further developed before we take it to Lincoln. But I'm not giving up just yet - just look at what's going on the car this week:
                  • ARH full length 1-7/8" primary headers and X-pipe with cats, good for 30 whp everywhere. Those are going on today (giant pain in the ass install). See picture, below right
                  • New PCM tune for the added power and exhaust flow from the headers
                  • Moton Clubsport double adjustable monotube shocks with remote reservoirs and custom valving, plus custom upper rear mounts (to mount these "eye to eye" shocks in the stock location). This is why we had the custom valved ASTs off - to verify valving ranges for the new Motons to match
                  • D-Force 18x10" wheels with 265/40/18 Yokohama AD08 tires (for street testing and some test-n-tune autocross runs, as these are not STX legal) - see picture, below left




                  We've also taken the car as close to "stock" as possible this week, so we could swing by the Ford dealer to have them try to install that so called "fix" for the electronic steering (TSB 10-16-4). So we put the stock airbox back on, the stock tune, pulled ALL of the decals off, slapped on the stock wheels, and took it to the local Ford dealer. They couldn't get the EPAS program to stick on our 2011 GT, and then we found out this TSB's software update only works on the 2011 Mustang GT500's EPAS module. They also "couldn't duplicate the steering shudder issue", and left the car with all sorts of AdvanceTrac fault codes lit up (that they cleared, after I pointed them out).


                  De-stickered and back to "stock", at least for a day

                  Frustrated, I brought the car back and did some more digging. It appears the "new" EPAS programming issued in TSB 10-16-4 will never fix this issue on our GT at all - from what this article says, this TSB is simply turning the "Active nibble" programming ON for short build run of 2011 GT500 Mustangs that inadvertently had it turned OFF at the factory (see more here). I'd rather have this active electronic nonsense in the power steering turned off completely, but that's a fight for another day.


                  Steering Shudder Test #2 - click for video

                  In the mean time I did some more road testing and now can make it go into "shudder mode" at will, and made another video showing this on the way back from the dealership (their techs were all at lunch when I picked up the car). I sent them this video (above left) and hopefully they can get to the bottom of this. Again, this is the only problem we've seen on the Mustang, nobody else with a 2011 GT has had it do it this badly, and we may have done this inadvertently, ourselves, while performing other work on the car. This seems to be a problem unique to this car, at least to this degree.


                  Header install is easier with the entire K-member out of the way

                  Since we had the stock airbox and tune on for the day, we did WOT and 45mph drive by Sound Tests with that set-up, then 2 more with the Steeda cold air and custom SCT tune back on. We'll do another 2 tests with the new headers on, later this week or next, then I'll post up all of those Sound Test videos/results. I'll throw another update up soon, maybe after we have the headers and tune on and have more dyno numbers to report, or after this weekend's Divisional - depends on how busy we get. The long tube header install is well underway, with the K-member completely out of the car to gain access to the stock headers. Supposed to be a "5 hour job", but we'll see.

                  Thanks,
                  Last edited by Fair!; 07-13-2011, 01:15 PM.
                  Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                  2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                  EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                    The wheels would be sweet but for street/DD applications, will the front center caps fit? I noticed you test fitted them without center caps on the front.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                      Yes, the car now has the D-Force centercaps installed on all four wheels.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                        Any idea ifna 285 will fit on the front? Hankook RS-3 looks to be less than 1" shorter then OEM.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                          Originally posted by John in Houston View Post
                          Any idea ifna 285 will fit on the front? Hankook RS-3 looks to be less than 1" shorter then OEM.
                          Yes, should fit easily up front.
                          Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                          2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                          EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                            Project Update for July 29, 2011 (1 of 2): Go grab a drink, pull up a chair, and get ready for a long update on the Mustang project. Some of this is a bit tardy, as I've been buried in demolition and construction work at the new Vorshlag shop (we should hopefully be moved in there by mid to late August), and there's a lot of ground to cover so I'm going to post two updates to cover it all. Some of the forums I cross-post this thread onto (namely roadraceautox) have post count limits, so it might turn into 3 or 4 posts on those, but so be it.

                            Let's touch base on the latest batch of new parts that have been added (or are in the process of going on), that was amassing before my last thread update:


                            New full length headers + cat pipe weighed 44.5 lbs; the stock bits were 49.6 lbs

                            The ARH full length 1-7/8" primary headers and X-pipe with cats were installed, and boy are they nice - but a whipping to install. Two of our guys here were working in 105° inside our (old) shop, and that kind of heat. Still, even with a lift and the right tools it took about 10 hours to install these headers. Not the most fun job. The problem is getting access to the stock headers... we saw no less than 3 methods for this car, but the most straightforward was "just pull the front crossmember out". So the engine was held in place while the car was raised on the lift, the steering shaft was disconnected, as were the strut tops, and the K-member was lowered from underneath. ARH swears you can just "partially remove" the rear of the K-member and save time, but we did it this way instead.



                            Not much to see there, I know... but the sound is better, though still eerily quiet. I guess the stock mufflers are still keeping the sound well under control. At least it made some good gains on the dyno. We took the car to True Street Motorsports in McKinney for a re-turn with the new headers and they found some good gains. The new track tune's "404" whp peak number is +21 whp, which doesn't seem like a huge jump, but you have to take several factors into consideration: this is using the new "track" tune with the wussy throttle map, which before only made 383 whp (vs 392 whp for the "street tune" with the berserko, stock throttle map). Also, it was 107°F when they did the dyno pulls! We were pressed for time so they didn't do a "street tune" pull, but I suspect it will make another 10 whp, like before. And when it cools down? Yea... it won't suck.


                            Click dyno graph above for larger image

                            It has been crazy hot in Texas for the past month, and even with "SAE correction" factors, dyno numbers still suffer in this kind of heat. He said it was pulling timing on every dyno run, due to the high temps. Picked up power everywhere above 2600 rpm. We'll re-dyno the car with the new mufflers, when temps are more sane, and I suspect we will see a bigger jump. It sure feels a lot faster. The build quality of the entire system was TOP NOTCH. If you'd like to get some American Racing Headers for your domestic car, let me know - Vorshlag is an ARH dealer now.



                            WOT and 45mph drive-by sound tests with "stock everything"

                            So that same week we did six sound tests; two tests (WOT in 3rd gear and drive-by at 45mph) for each of three configurations of parts. The First set-up was a re-test with OEM airbox/exhaust (WOT = 87 dB, drive-by = 75 dB ), then with the Steeda Cold Air and tune (WOT = 87 dB, drive-by = 80 dB ), then with the Steeda Cold Air + ARH long tubes and cat X-pipe + tune (WOT = 93 dB, drive-by = 75 dB ).


                            WOT with Steeda CAI and another with the Steeda CAI + Long Tube headers

                            As you can see & hear in the 93 dB test video, the car is still damned quiet at Wide Open Throttle with the new headers, and we're putting the sound meter much closer to the car than the SCCA does at Solo events. The steady speed drive-by tests show no sound increase at all over stock, and driving the car on the highway, it is still absurdly quiet.

                            I went back and looked at our February sound tests, also with the car totally stock, and it was only 82 dB. These tests were made with the same car, same tires, same sound meter, on the same road, meter located in the same location, and it was 5 dB quieter. Can't explain that one. Later this year, possibly after the Watts Link is in (because it adds new exhaust routing challenges), I'll build a custom axle-back exhaust. This will shed some pounds, un-cork some exhaust flow, and probably sound a good deal better. Its still just... too quiet.

                            We just got the custom re-valved Moton Clubsport shocks yesterday, but haven't put them on yet. I will cover that in a future update - the guys here have been working on the 330 motor swap and our massive influx of orders, and I'm buried in the new construction, so these Motons won't go on the car until sometime in August, probably after we've moved into the new shop. Any higher end shock set-up with remote reservoirs and hoses takes a bit of extra time, care, and planning to install properly. Add to that the copious pictures we'll be doing for an installation gallery. We've ordered and received the custom rear upper mounts needed for these shocks and for this chassis, as well as high-end rubber grommets bulkheads for the hose pass-thrus, but there's still a good 8+ hours of wrenching, drilling, reservoir bracket/mounting, bushing machining, and four corner set-up to perform. Never rush an install on high end shocks.



                            These double adjustable monotube shocks have remote reservoirs, and were customized with both new pistons and new valving from AST/Moton USA. After they dyno'd the off-the-shelf S197 Club Sports they saw the need for some valving changes, and we will work with these guys to get these set-up for autocross and track use on the S197 Mustang over the coming months (the new Vorshlag shop will be 200 feet from AST/Moton USA's facility, so that helps). The custom upper rear mounts converts Moton's "eye to eye" shocks to "eye to pin", but I'll still need to machine some bushings on the lathe to fit these mounts and upper sphericals. This is common on race car shocks, BTW. Vorshlag will stock the rear mounts and supply the custom bushings, plus the front Vorshlag camber plates, allowing customers to buy a Moton shock kit from us that more easily bolts-onto this chassis. The picture (above right) of the rear shock does not show the screw-on spherical upper end, nor the eye-to-pin adapter mounts that we have acquired.





                            The prototype D-Force/Vorshlag 18x10" wheels have been mounted with an extra set of (track abused but still deep tread) 265/40/18 Yokohama AD08 tires, and we've been bombing around on the street for a couple of weeks on these without incident - well, other than the many lustful stares the car now gets rolling on these big meats. They look... frakking awesome. The fit is perfect - we nailed the offset exactly. All of that wheel testing paid off! Spoke to caliper clearance is ridiculous - there's almost an inch between the inside of the spokes and the big Brembo 4-pot. There's more fender room outboard up front and inboard out back, but movement of the wheel flange in either direction would require spacers up front or cause the wheels to poke out in the rear... this is the best "bolt it onto either end of the car and it fits" offset, which most people want. Sure, two separate offsets could allow another 1/2" of width, but most folks don't want a different front and rear wheel. This allows for one wheel to fit anywhere, and easy tire rotation. Stay tuned for more information about the initial pre-purchase specials we will offer on the production batch of S197 18x10's; these wheels will be available exclusively form Vorshlag.



                            Last up, the Odyssey PC680 battery. We picked up one of these 14 pound AGM batteries months back but finally got around to ordering a battery mounting bracket to help install this thing. We ordered a Braille unit for $76 from TireRack. CNC machined, black anodized, beautifully built, but it is made for a Braille battery. Didn't fit the Odyssey, at all, so we found another battery bracket from West Coast Batteries - right from the Odyssey website. $55 and it looks as good if not better than the Braille. Why we didn't see this one and order it first, I cannot explain?! That's now on order and we'll install it soon.

                            That's it for the latest parts - the coverage of our last autocross (SCCA SW Divisional #3) is below.
                            Last edited by Fair!; 08-03-2011, 09:56 AM.
                            Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                            2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                            EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                              Fantastic. Wheels look good; would have liked a bit less front tuck but understand the challenges in having a wheel that can be rotated front and back. Any chance you'll reveal the offsets used? Either way, these are my new "affordable dream" wheels

                              Car sounds awesome with the intake/header combo at WOT. I ran this setup on a previous car (intake/header/catback piping with stock muffler) and liked how it improved top end power but also kept the car quiet when cruising.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                                UPS man came and went... no D-Force wheels delivered to my house.

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